Do not say those words…

/ CrazyKat1963
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Thanksgiving 2018 table setting at the Beach House. More about those gorgeous ceramic cups in another post.

Now that American Thanksgiving has passed I have a bit of a breather before I start preparing for Christmas and the New Year. The Thanksgiving holiday was wonderful. I arrived at the beach house with two full days to prep, and I really only needed one. I can be quite productive when I put my mind to it. It helps that I had those days all to myself. I even went into the little beach town just north of us and purchased fresh flowers. I always do my own arrangements.

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My unconventional Thanksgiving arrangement still looking quite lovely six days later.

I also do all the cooking at this point since I love doing it, and no one else really does. My parents put on Thanksgiving for decades. They don’t want to do it anymore. It’s okay. Now that I’m no longer in the throes of betrayal trauma, I’m good doing this for the family, and for myself. This year’s feast included a dry-brined heritage bird, plus all the usual sides… mashed potatoes, gravy, dressing, homemade cranberry & fig chutney, green bean casserole (from scratch with everything fresh), honey garlic glazed rainbow carrots (I love rainbow carrots), sweet potato casserole & dinner rolls. At the beach house I also like to do a green salad topped with crab & shrimp, which I purchase local. My parents brought the desserts. Two pies from a little local pie bakery in Portland called Lauretta Jean’s, and a fresh apple cake that my mom made. The two siblings (of my 10 sibs) that are here for Thanksgiving don’t really have the desire or ability to bring anything other than themselves. The Peacemaker dry brined the turkey for me since they picked up the bird in Portland. The Peacemaker also loves to cook, but mostly he loves to eat what I cook. He’s so cute!

Thanksgiving at the beach house is a much smaller affair than when I entertained family at our Portland house. Christmas will be another story as The Pragmatist and his girlfriend will be back from Madrid and joining us for the holidays, plus GQ+family will also be in town again. The beach house has this great open plan with lots of prep counter space, and that view.

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Today’s office.

I haven’t had much time to write since my last post, but there is no shutting down this brain. Journal entries and blog posts swirl around in my head constantly. Only a fraction actually make it here. I have been reading blogs and making some comments, wanting to post about topics like whether or not to tell a friend that you think their partner is cheating on them, about triggers, about my feelings towards cutting… some of these things I have written about before, but as the years pass, and I heal, my feelings sometimes adapt. I’ll probably still write about those things again, but not today.

One post I have had in my queue for a while and just need to finish by adding photos is a travel entry from our recent trip to Europe. Two days into that 16 day trip I contracted what would eventually turn into bronchial pneumonia and a wicked sinus infection. More on that later, but suffice it to say that October was a tough month. I returned home, visited the doc, picked up meds, and got on another plane bound for Tokyo. OY!!!! Looking back on it now just makes me tired. In the original plan, Blue Eyes and I are supposed to be boarding a plane tomorrow for Oahu. Not going to happen. Not only did Blue Eyes also contract a pretty evil case of bronchitis, but both our dogs came down with pancreatitis. We still don’t know what they ingested, but a couple thousand dollars later, we decided to postpone Hawaii until January and give everyone an at-home resting period. During the process of re-booking our Hawaii trip, I asked Blue Eyes which seats he wanted to be in on the plane. On the return flight we will be in First Class row 2. Blue Eyes sort of flippantly threw out a “hey, weren’t those the seats we were in when the other woman showed up on that plane with us coming back from Hawaii.” But he didn’t say “the other woman.” He said her name. He rarely ever says her name. I say her name. I still do. I still believe it just comes out because my subconscious wants to remind me to remind Blue Eyes that I haven’t forgotten that he had a disgusting 8-year whatever you want to call it relationship with some scary hoarding alcoholic stalker.

I didn’t really react right away to him saying her name. When she showed up on the plane with us less than a year into the healing process, I was a mess. We both were. It was a horrifying experience. (That day she showed up on a plane with us)

But that was nearly four years ago. I’m over it, right? Well, yeah, technically I’m over all that, but I’m not completely over the fact that my husband did all those horrible things and that he would be willing to just throw her name out there in such a casual manner, bringing up one of the most horrifying days of my life. Hmmm. Later in bed I was having trouble falling asleep–imagine that. Blue Eyes could sense my restlessness. He asked what was wrong. I told him I was kind of bothered by how casually he brought up her name. I don’t like it. For a long time I wanted him to be able to say her name, because back then he flat out wouldn’t. Like if he didn’t say her actual name she wasn’t actually real, or something. These days, I don’t want him thinking or talking about her. So, I told him how I was feeling.

And he did this… he rolled over and said “you are living in the past.”

Oh no he didn’t. Yeah, he did.

I was immediately angry. Ah, if it were all so easy. That was then, this is now. “Oh, yeah, hey Mr. Police Officer, I did brutally murder that guy last week, but that was the PAST. I am a different man today. I don’t have to live with any consequences, right? YOU are living in the past, Mr. Police Officer…. “ And I said that to him, out loud. Clearly he was annoyed that I was keeping him from his precious sleep. Fuck it, who cares if I can’t sleep because of his careless words? He said, oh maybe I should just be sent to the guillotine then (don’t know where guillotine came from, probably the quickest most violent thing he could think of???) But, in my mind he was saying that I was being ridiculous and what I was saying was ridiculous and therefore he was going to throw out something equally as ridiculous. Obviously he was annoyed and not taking me seriously at all. So I just said, “yeah, maybe.” If he could be flippant, so could I. The sad thing is, all he had to do was say he understands and he is sorry for being so callous. He could have just hugged me and said, “I’m sorry for being such a jerk.” He understands that all the things he did and said to harm me will resurface, potentially forever. He is the one who wants to make this relationship work. He can walk away any time, from me, from my obsessive nature, from my need to talk things out, from my need to be respected.

I know life is hard, but when you have thrown your loyal spouse under the bus, lied to her, lied about her, cheated on her repeatedly… I don’t understand how you wouldn’t do everything in your power just to be kind. Don’t suddenly become argumentative when you have done something wrong. Don’t try to minimize the damage of what you have done. Own it. Apologize. I will continue to be triggered. I know how to live in the moment and in that moment I was triggered. Yes I was triggered about something from the past, but he is the one who fucking brought it up… HELLO???? I know he is human and humans are extremely fallible beings, but come on, give me a fucking break and own your shit Blue Eyes. Take your anger off to your 12 step meeting and hash it out with them. To me, just BE KIND.

57 thoughts on “Do not say those words…”

  1. Blue Eyes,
    No, no, no, no, NO! Don’t ever bring up that homewrecking crack whore’s name casually like that.
    And as for telling Kat she’s living in the past?? Good God, man, what a stupid insensitive thing to say! Consider yourself lucky she didn’t place both feet on your torso and roll you right out of that bed.
    You don’t get to say stupid shit like that. EVER!
    I hope you’ve had time to consider what you said that night and apologised sincerely to the wife who has stayed by your side through the horrific and lasting side effects of your appalling behaviour.
    Rant over.
    SWxo

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  2. Kat, I am still following you after all these years. The “friend” I first wrote to you about (what is it, 4 years ago now?) is still in my life though we have not seen each other in 3 years. We keep in contact mostly by phone, and it is always him calling me. I never call him, ever.

    I read your blog and it reminds me every time that he is not going to ever change. He is now 62, we have known each other more than 10 years, and we still have a connection that is hard to define, but so much of the shit you describe about BE is exactly like my friend. Self absorption. Lack of empathy and compassion. Lying and gaslighting. Reacting defensively and deflecting when challenged. One of your commenters here said something profound about the inability for them to manage their image forever. He sure managed his with me for years. Then when all the bad stuff happened—his life threatening illness, his adult child with an addiction crisis, his own unemployment—that all ended at least with me. His life is back to some relative normalcy for now, and I am sure he is charming other women at the job he found after a year and a half of unemployment, but he long ago stopped trying to charm me, and he worked so hard at it for a long time. He does still drop some weird sexual innuendo into conversations occasionally; we never even kissed but for years he could barely talk to me for more than 5 minutes without making those kind of comments. When I miss the (very) fun times that are in the distant past, I tell myself loudly and clearly HE IS NEVER GOING TO CHANGE. And that he was always who he is now, I just chose to ignore the signs then. I have learned from reading your blog that he is just not capable of it; I have certainly tried to ask for more compassion, empathy, and (indirectly) for him to stop lying to me many times over these years; he will not let go of me but I keep significant boundaries around myself because of these things. He is just not capable of changing. As we discussed long ago, I believe he has a lot in common with BE in terms of childhood experiences. It is very sad to me, but I can’t let my huge compassion for that hurt little boy cause me to be a codependent. I think I was for awhile with him when we first met. In fact I am sure of that. I am grateful that he was not “free” when we met because I probably would have ended up “with” him in some way and dealing with a lot of the same stuff you do (albeit with a much easier out due to the lack of longevity that you and BE have).

    Have you seen “Beautiful Boy”? I did, and the loud and clear message to me is that once the line has been crossed into addiction and the changes in the addict’s brain have been made, it is nearly impossible for them to really recover and be in the world in the ways they and their loved ones wish they could. Nobody wants to live that way, constantly fighting for survival emotionally (and literally with substance addiction), and nobody who loves them and has done everything their power to support recovery wants them to live that way. But I just think it is a fact that once they became a fucked up addict they are stuck there forever, in varying degrees of acting out and falling back, or down, throughout the rest of their lives. All the love and devotion and understanding in the world will not cure it. There is no cure. Only active management of some behaviors when there is a lot of will fueled by a great risk of loss. I know this is the truth about my friend: he will always be a liar and a gaslighter, always lack empathy and compassion, never understand what kindness really means beyond the most (always self serving) superficial acts, etc., which I have learned through your blog and a couple of others I found through you…women who are staying with sex and/or love addicts…and perhaps it is the truth about BE too.

    I am not equating my relationship with this man with yours with your husband, to be clear. Just relating what I have experienced with him and how your blog has helped me see things as they are, not as I wish they were, and how I have created boundaries that are fucking hard to maintain at times. I believe what I am describing is radical acceptance.

    Hugs

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    • B, I know you read a lot and listen a lot and are extremely intelligent, which I’m sure makes knowing what you need to do in your situation even more difficult. I agree with you on everything you say here, not that you are asking for that, but I do. There is no question being in a relationship with an addict is a difficult choice. I know that first hand. I feel it every day. It hurts to know my best friend is so fucked up that he forgets what it is like to be kind and respectful of me and my needs. It really hurts. Things are much much better than they were 4, 3, or even 2 years ago, but things are complicated. When I see that relationship status on FB, “it’s complicated” it always makes me chuckle. Yeah, no kidding. Relationships are complicated, especially intimate ones.

      When you speak of how it would be if he had been available when you met him, I get it. Walking away from a complicated friendship with a difficult man is quite a bit easier when you haven’t shared things like children and a business, but nonetheless, when you love someone, it is difficult to walk away, period. I agree that your friend will not change because he, from what you have said, does not realize there is anything wrong with him or his behavior. It’s ingrained, habit. He side steps and alters, as you say, because the cost is high if the depth of his emotional relationships are discovered by his wife. I agree, he is no doubt grooming other women right now. I’m glad you are in a place of radical acceptance. Doesn’t make it easier, but it sets parameters. As you know from reading my blog, I have committed to stay with BE and live the day to day life with a recovering addict. Frankly speaking, I was too far into the relationship at the time of discovery to simply walk away. I have learned so much about myself in the past five years and I know I would be fine if I did walk away. I continue to write because there are a lot of people in the situation I am in (more than I could have ever imagined) and talking it out and knowing other people get it, gives us all a place of companionship. And I do agree with you. There is no such thing as recovered. Addicts are always recovering and there is a very tenuous line between white knuckling it and truly wanting to dig deep, deal with the demons, change ingrained (brain addicted) behaviors etc…

      There is no doubt in my mind that if you had been agreeable, your relationship with your friend would have entered the sexual affair zone. I know with BE, he went as far as the women would allow. There were lots of women other than the three he had full fledged affairs with… it’s just that the other women didn’t let it go that far. What really matters is that you are taking care of yourself and respecting your own feelings, needs, etc… I’m glad you’re still here with me.

      xo

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      • His wife did find out about the depth of our friendship (4 years ago), and I only found that out because I guessed, not because he told me. He told me about some drama but soon after I never heard another word about it. And he just kept going with me; I have no idea what he promised her. I often wonder when he calls and we talk for an hour or more what she would do if she knew, or maybe she doesn’t care. I stopped agreeing to see him after he lied to me when he canceled plans we had, I am absolutely sure she knew we were going to meet that day. He told me a ridiculous bullshit story about why he was canceling, it was supposed
        to be lunch/drinks before Christmas. He has tried several times to get together since then but I always refused. And yet, he sticks around by phone and text.

        They bought a million dollar beach house this year. Neither of them is going anywhere.

        I accept your perspective regarding the sexual component but there was lots of opportunity for him to make a move before he got sick and he never did. Only the incessant sexually charged weird comments. I never understood that and still don’t.

        I am glad things are better for you and continue to improve over time. I think some huge amount of that (let’s say 99% 😉) is due to your choices and ability to create boundaries that make those choices possible.

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        • Thanks, B. If your friend is anything like BE or other SAs, they are not the aggressors. They are a lot of talk and not a lot of action. Even the emotional relationship fills some holes. The women clinched the deal in BE’s case. He was super patient and the clandestine behavior (his own secret world) was what he sought. Your boundaries sound secure. At least now I can make my own ‘eyes wide open’ decisions about my life. ❤️

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          • It is so interesting to me that they are not typically the initiators of the sexual component of a “relationship”. I wonder what the psychology of that is. Do they need to be so desired that they will create that tension? He told me very early on that the women in his previous company were very sexually aggressive, and I wondered at the time if that was some sort of signal to me.
            Regarding his grooming of other women, a part of me is jealous of that fun (we had a lot!) and attention but I am able to remember all the negatives of being on the receiving end of that, and I work very hard to tell myself they are getting nothing more or better than I did when I was “her”.
            By the way he still calls me by his silly pet name for me. Another thing I do not get.
            xo

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            • I guess each person is different in terms of what their needs are and how they go about getting them met. In BE’s 12 step groups, the men run the gamut of behavior. Some strictly porn addicts with no actual relationships, some seek prostitutes (some as rarely as once a year, some once a day) and online relationships, some short, some long term affairs. Some a combination of all of the above. Their wounds are likewise unique. From what I have read, many sex addicts start at a young age, early adolescence. They use masturbation as a way to fill some deep emotional needs. Porn and the internet have really exacerbated that problem. It becomes habit, ingrained, their brain requires the hits. From there, who knows? BE had a very destructive relationship by which he lost his virginity. He was in college. The girl was a bit older and way more experienced. She was really broken, sexually abused by a therapist at a young age, a recent abortion and break up with a boyfriend, etc… (sounds a lot like my borderline sister). All the women BE sought out in his addiction wanted his attention. They wanted a real relationship, but they were the aggressors. They theoretically set the parameters and made the rules regarding sex. That was part of his “game.” A couple thoughts on that with BE. First, he has low self esteem from his childhood abuse, and a very non-confrontational personality. He set the stage, but he let the women dictate the progression. He likens it to the abusive relationship he had with his mother. He never pursued a woman that didn’t want the sexual relationship. He did a lot of grooming that didn’t go anywhere. He needed a secret life. He had always had a secret life. Who knows what other men are going for as I only know what BE was going for. I will say that BE has said he learned that the bigger hits lay in the texting and messaging and emailing, the lead up… the sex was the end of the process. It was a let down after and he always wanted her to go away. In the end, when he was there in a hotel room sleeping with her, and the sex was over, he wanted me there by his side. That left him with a great deal of emptiness and shame, but the addiction won out for a very long time. It’s all so complicated but for me, the bottom line, is people need to deal with that underlying trauma and the wounds that drive them to behave in a way that they feel shameful. I’m not convinced your guy feels shame. I don’t think he thinks he’s doing anything wrong?

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              • I don’t think he has a conscience. But he is not a criminal either. Just a really fucked up guy, and I have tried so hard to understand him all these years. Almost everyone in the world sees this charming, fun, attractive, financially successful man, and it is so strange to know how superficial that all is, and sad to imagine (with some hints) at how someone turns out that way inside.

                I would have expected him to dump me long ago when I figured out what he really is, because he is definitely a narcissist (but not the Donald Trump type!) But here we are, him still (sort of) chasing me, for more than 10 years.

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  3. “I don’t understand how you wouldn’t do everything in your power just to be kind.”

    I rarely share posts with Handsome, but I did send him this one. We are struggling with kindness. I watch him being charming and witty and respectful of others (so I know the guy I thought I married is buried in there somewhere), but he very easily forgets (?) to carry that over to his wife and kids. Our CSAT says he can only image manage for so long before the wheels come off the bus. On the one hand I get it and on the other hand I don’t understand why he can’t just be nice to us, like he is to most other people.

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      • I actually still don’t remember any amends. We’re not together right now… I’m still at the beach house, but I was a bit taken aback by his comment frankly. So strange. Still waiting for him to define how he made amends, but yeah, how about behaving right the first time… I honestly think that is what amends are at this point. Behaving kindly, no excuses.

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        • Precisely… the best amends is treating your family well, not just with material things, but all of the intangibles that entails (displaying kindness, integrity, compassion, respect, etc.).

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          • So true… I don’t know how many times I have said to him that doing the dishes, walking the dogs, grocery shopping, etc… is not what this is all about. I can do all those things myself. Respect and kindness are at the heart. Stop and think…. don’t speak out of anger and frustration. It’s like we represent their addiction sometimes. They see in us all the mistakes they have made. 😔

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            • My friend’s addict son, after causing so much drama and chaos, stealing money and meds, destroying 2 family cars, lying about everything, getting kicked out of 2 expensive private rehabs, being in AA for a couple of years, etc., made “amends” with his father by taking him to an NFL game 😳. A few years prior, my friend was hosting business guests in a luxury suite for the same team, and brought the son, who was kicked out by security for getting drunk and fighting with the suite attendant.

              So, yeah, amends.

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    • I used to read a lot of posts to BE back in the day, but mainly he read all mine. Sometimes it was just easier to express myself in writing and he is non-confrontational, so I think reading it allowed him to absorb more. I’m certainly not going for shaming here, just for him to think about how he behaves and responds, from my perspective. But as we know, addicts and shame go hand in hand. And sometimes when trying to avoid shame, we get anger. It’s messed up. I know all about putting on shows… my sister has borderline personality disorder and it takes everything out of her to socialize. She might be sick for days after an afternoon get together. I know it’s difficult to pretend sometimes, but why should we, the ones they’ve hurt the most, get the short end of the stick. I also understand, but don’t understand. Save the love for me, and yeah, for the son who lives with us. Treat us at least as kindly as he treats strangers. Work in progress, but it still hurts. ❤️

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      • First – I LOVE the view in your photo. Wow. (p.s. – I am still up for adoption and I have a fabulous Golden Retriever who loves to play with other dogs. LOL)

        Second – I am dealing with a similar situation. Sometimes the “wrong” words or response comes out, and it hurts terribly. My husband is often very supportive, yet he’s a “work in progress” (aren’t we all?).

        I agree 100% that the shame fuels anger responses and (in my case) it fuels some implied blame at times. I’ve heard comments from my husband about how he is NOW and that was the PAST. It’s true. BUT. I have a diagnosis of PTSD and sometimes the triggers happen (even subtle ones) and I need him to support me instead of escalating the situation.

        We are working with a marital therapist trained in Emotionally Focused Therapy and SA / betrayed partners. Hoping she can help us with this.

        It hurts, Kat, when they say things like this. Mistakes are bound to happen, and what I ask for are “repairs” — The Gottmans (I think) developed a list we use. We are still “newbies” with the repair stuff, but it’s helpful.

        Hugs!

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        • Just come visit me!!!! Have you been to Oregon? I’m about to post a picture I took from our bedroom upon waking up this morning. I need to drive back to the city later today and I don’t want to. Spoiled much?! :). I’m so glad to hear things are progressing. Of course we realize no one is perfect and we all say things that hurt sometimes, but the PTSD is just not a joke. I went to places I wouldn’t have dreamed of… my brain took me there without conscious effort on my part. It was so scary. It did help me to realize, however, how my husband got to where he did… abuse, open wounds, addictive behavior. I simply am not an addict. He is. He has a lot more work to do. I am okay now. I want him to keep doing the work and treating me with kindness and respect. I know he tries. His anger directed at me is the most difficult aspect of all of this. I didn’t break him, I didn’t contribute to his behavior, I didn’t abandon him in his time of need. I do my best to be kind. I am truly there for him and always have been. I don’t want to hurt anymore. It’s a big ask, I realize that. xo

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          • No, I’ve never been to Oregon, yes, (fur realz). I’m from WNY, which is not at all like “downstate NYC area” – – – it’s like the midwest, really. As far as west coast, I’ve been to San Diego (loved the La Jolla seals) and to Vancouver, BC and Victoria, BC. I have a niece near San Jose, and I really want to get to NorCal too!

            Yep – re: PTSD – it’s like being hijacked. Mine is getting better with tools, my own therapy work, and CBD, believe it or not!

            SAs directing anger at their partner, wife or other women is a common part of the addiction. I told my husband to take his anger to his group members too. Don’t bring it to me! We’ve both realized that he chose to create arguments, foster anger, etc. to justify his acting out over 2 decades. I’m done with THAT anger. It’s not my stuff.

            Even though we travel out of the country (not far – Canada) for our EFT couple’s therapist, I am so grateful for her. We saw her yesterday. She validates how much we love each other, as she can see it. That’s a foundation we can stand on and move together forward the best we can.

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            • Sometimes loving each other that much is enough to carry us through some of these really difficult recovery periods. For us it was. I remember sitting in therapy and even when the time started out contentious and we were sitting apart and not touching, we would eventually come close and hold hands at some point during the session. There was never a point where either of us hated the other. Pain and disappointment, yes, but hate, no.

              We lived in San Diego and have spent a lot of time in Silicon Valley. If you get to Central California, you must go to Yosemite. Beautiful! Oregon and Washington are also lovely, lots of forests and mountains, and the Pacific Ocean, of course. And food!!!

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    • Hi, I hope you don’t mind if I hijack this for a minute. Reading about being talked down to just get my dander up. I have been married a long time and I have been married to a very sarcastic man. It used to hurt so badly when I was younger and more dependent on him financially. He never talks to other people that way. Never. It’s a sign of contempt and I no longer put up with it. Don’t get me wrong he is a loving man and a very good husband but when he’s in a bad mood or tired his sarcasm comes out. Now, because I don’t allow it to get to me I just ask him if he plans on using that tone of voice(or those words)because I have better things to do. His default is to deny or to say he is just like that. That’s when I say ok see you later. It’s hard to argue with air.
      BE had a very long affair. That is the immovable piece of granite in your marriage. You both have to maneuver around it. I think she should be relegated to the garbage and you both agree to that. I have always felt very sorry for his childhood but he is now an adult and knows how to keep his mouth shut. So when he opens it and stupidity comes out I suggest silence from you gets the point across. Sometimes people can be real jackasses. Of course I am never one.

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      • Never highjacking, Moi. These are all conversations. The more the merrier. We can all learn something from each other. I hear you on the keeping silent when BE says something stupid, HOWEVER, I am almost never silent. When I am silent, I have one foot out the door. That is me. I respect myself a great deal and have always been there for BE. He knows he wants to change and he is changing. For my own well being, I must be honest with him. Most of the severe trauma, for me, has passed. I can talk now without bursting into tears. The bigger issue is not the initial stupid or thoughtless comment, but in fact where he goes from there. It would be terribly nice if he didn’t say stupid or thoughtless things, but that is not realistic at this point. So, once the horse has left the barn, he needs to be kind and thoughtful in how he handles the situation. Not, angry and flippant. He’s working on it. As I like to say, often, I keep writing here and talking about our journey because there are a lot of people dealing with this, like me, right now and I can learn from them, and you, and it helps not to feel so alone. BE’s childhood has followed him well into adulthood. It will be with him forever. He does have a responsibility, in my opinion, to himself and others to acknowledge what the childhood created in him, and try to do better. I know he tries, hard. Silence with BE does not work. It is what he wants. For Kat to just be quiet for a change. Not.going.to.happen. Thanks, Moi. Oh, one more thing (because I actually don’t ever shut up) is BE used to be very rude and sarcastic towards me around my family. So unlike his normal personality and I would blow it off in front of the family (I’m a tough cookie), but it hurt. It hurt bad. I didn’t understand it. Now I do. BE never fought back in his own family dynamic. He took and took and took. When he is in a family situation and no one is fighting him, or belittling him, his natural instinct is to go after the strongest person in the room, ME. Totally sick and broken behavior, but he knew I wouldn’t fight back in front of my family. That came out in the fallout from discovery and he never ever ever does that anymore. He just stopped, cold turkey. He does have the ability to learn and grow. I believe in him. xo

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  4. I just have to say, your husband was a fool for cheating on you!! You sound amazing! So in-tuned to who you are, loving to your family, thoughtful of others, and your food sounds delish!! ..I mean come on now, What more could a man ask for ?!? .. shoot – I dont even know you and I would marry you 😉 🙂 🙂 .. hehe … happy holidays Kat!

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    • I KNOW, right? My husband is a fool!!! A messed up, wounded, man child, addict, fool. Time for him to step up… we’re not getting any younger! Thanks for the kind words. If things don’t work out with BE, I’ll hit you up! 😂 Happy Holidays to you and yours! It’s a wonderful time of year! ⛄️❤️

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  5. KIND. If my husband and I don’t make it, I swear the only thing I will look for in the future in a spouse is kindness. I wish people realized how incredibly important it is to show kindness in all things.

    Oh, and your menu sounds amazing and your table looks gorgeous!

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    • Thank you! I do love a good Thanksgiving meal. Once a year is about right and doing up the table is one of my favorite things to do! I agree, kindness is key in all relationships. Expressing anger towards people who have not harmed us, is cruel. xo

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  6. Oh I am backing you up Sister❤️❤️❤️ yup just be kind or move out of my way. I think cheaters forget it’s double work for us. Like literally I had to come to a point where I told my therapist I do not want to dumb myself down for Charles to not be a cowardly bitch

    I am wise enough not to have an affair and be honest. And this fool has an affair and then can not communicate with me as a person who he loves? Or claims to? When I am struggling guess what either step up or Like I said move out of my way I put up with Charles dicking around my life so he thinks I will put up with his antics after I’ve been thrown under the bus 😂😂😂

    He knows now I swear I must give off the you are dumb as a box of rocks vibe because the light bulb switches on.

    However he did say something to me early on (we are almost 5 years out) and he says I’m sorry I know I do not understand and can’t help you with your pain. But I won’t change probably in many ways probably for many years but I want to. Can you help me?

    Poor guy didn’t know what he was asking 😂😂😂 because you know your loyal pal NH did not hold back on the helping.

    I suppose I am learning too. To be kind and not spiteful back. To say you know what that hurt my feelings and I am sad and pretty angry right now. Or for me to realize I am too hurt to even talk to him or face him right now and to say that to his face instead of me blogging about it, praying for his death, or texting friends

    Oh. The. Maddening. Rage

    Sorry Kat that happened and I’m glad you both are feeling better. Your thanksgiving sounds like a blast and I love the view of the beach house! So pretty ❤️❤️❤️

    Love your posts and Paula’s
    I hope we can all get together one day and just bask in each other’s survival

    Also I have been thinking about going to the Hope Restored counseling session that is sponsored by Focus on the Family and that is like 10k can you believe that and that does it not include airfare 😮😮😮

    So many other ways to spend that type of money can go see Paula in the fly for that kind of paper 😊😊😊😍😍

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  9. I agree. Your menu sounded delicious…even to someone who doesn’t like to eat! (I was a little confused about the bird thing.)
    About the “living in the past” shit…I’ve heard that, I’ve read it and I’m constantly being accused of it.
    Yeah…the cheaters just forget about it and expect you to as well. I have the same question for all of them…”WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?”

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    • Ha, a heritage turkey is one that is raised from old stock, basically like an heirloom tomato. And dry brining is salting and seasoning the bird a couple days before hand. The bird will absorb the salt into the meat. These kinds of birds aren’t injected with anything so they tend to be drier.

      And exactly right… what the fuck is wrong with them that they think they can behave like assholes and then when we mention it, they act like we are the crazy ones. xo

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      • An heirloom tomato? 🍅
        I don’t know what that is either. 🤭
        I had a Boost for Thanksgiving. I know what that is. 🤣
        That whole living in the past accusation is enough to actually drive somebody crazy.
        That phrase was what Loser used when he was telling the judge that’s what I did…and he was a present and future person. Yep. Cheat and pass on an STD…never mention it and then beat the shit out of the person who can’t forget.

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        • Lady, when was the last time you were in a grocery store!!! Just kidding. I know you don’t do food but Boost is no substitute for a good Thanksgiving meal. The STD thing is a perfect example of how the past lives on. I think it just burns when these people (men) behave so badly and there appear to be no consequences. We live with the abuse forever. In my case, my husband was abused and then he abused. Really difficult for me to understand how he could perpetuate abuse, but it’s a thing. People do it every day. It’s not that difficult to be nice, is it? ❤️

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          • For some entitled people it is very difficult to be nice.
            Loser was a golden child, so his abuse was never understandable.
            You would think that…given my childhood, I would have been the abuser, but I consciously remember thinking that I would never beat my children or give them black eyes.
            Last time I went to the grocery store? Um…I don’t know. I get my Boost delivered and every few days, I might have two peanut butter crackers. That fills me up.
            Betrayal does things to you as you well know. I’ve just never recovered.
            BUT…when my book comes out…a few people are going to find out about Loser. His lying days will be over.
            (Mean I know…but I went from a family of six to a family of one.)

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  10. I totally understand. And my fear (wrong word) is that this is why Roger ran. He thought he could outrun his past by deleting me, starting over. Sadly, just as I felt it was becoming easier to leave the past mostly to one side. Terribly heartbreaking. The consequences of other people’s choices are hard to accept, and those of your own are just avoided, neatly side stepped

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      • Thanksgiving is a funny traditional holiday. It’s really about the food at this point… everything else, the history of it, is bullshit. Glorifying over some pretty horrific behavior. But if families can get together and enjoy each other’s company and eat tasty food, it’s all good. We used to visit BE’s family for Thanksgiving and I hated it. It’s the absolute worst time to travel here in the U.S. and the narcissist-in-law put on quite a horrendous show. I was always relegated to doing dishes. It’s my holiday now. 🙂

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