A tumble, then a fall

After my last post, things went a bit bad to worse. It is difficult to explain these days how moody we can both be, for differing reasons, under the circumstances.

I read a blog post a couple days ago that caused me to go to a place of great pain. I honestly thought I was past this and then I realize, I have no idea what I am. I feel fine most days. Really fine. I rarely shed a tear anymore. Sometimes I feel a bit low at points, but it quickly fades away. Then, unexpectedly, I read or see something that brings back the agony of my new reality. This time it all snuck up on me. I knew Blue Eyes was dealing with his own demons and working his way through and it is not about me, after all. But when I needed him, he wasn’t there. It was a bit of an unlucky coincidence, him being down, and out, at the same time I needed him to be present and open.

The blog post was one blogger’s way of trying to figure out how the affair between her husband and his affair partner transpired. I believe she has some of the correspondence, or not, it doesn’t really matter. Her situation is nothing like mine. I have zero correspondence between my husband and the other woman… not a single text or email or love note. Nothing. Because there was no actual proof, he could have denied the whole thing. She was a complete stranger to me. He tried to lie, but I didn’t believe. If he hadn’t crumbled under the pressure, I might still be in the dark about most things. Or perhaps he is telling the truth when he says he wanted it all out there but was too weak to actually say the words himself, so he waited until that fateful day when she finally did reach me, and then he started purging. Regardless of how it all came down, she did reach me and the fact that there was a third person in our marriage, well, it’s hell.

So after reading the post, I became frustrated with all the rationalizing that goes on when a person uses excuses like they were lonely, or bored, or their spouse doesn’t give them enough attention and somehow that is a reason for cheating. I hate when the romance people conjure in a secret fantasy relationship is somehow more satisfying to them than the love they profess for their long term mate. We all know affairs aren’t real. They are full of secrets, lust, abandoned responsibilities, and often deep displaced wounds, festering wounds. Wounds the cheater refuses to treat. To the faithful spouse, affairs are downright cruel. I cannot change what my husband did, or what he is, but I can now expect him to tell me the truth. I can expect him to be open and honest with me. This is the new promise he has made. If he cannot keep this promise, our marriage is over.

As these difficult days wear on, my resolve seems to vanish. By the time we crawl into bed, I am emotionally exhausted from the strain of trying to push away all the nagging thoughts and concerns that creep in. Thursday night, as I sat down on the edge of my side of the bed, I said to my husband, “I am having a difficult time of it, I need to know what you said to keep this woman coming back to you after 9, 12, 15 months of no contact. I need to know how the conversations went between you. I just need to know the truth.” I have asked my husband this question before, but his answer has always been a dismissive one. He would say, “I told her I didn’t know why I was drawn to her. That I was lonely and needed someone to talk to. I told her I wasn’t getting sex at home.” The generalities and vagueness of his answers have always triggered me. My husband and the OW were in an on again/off again relationship for eight long years. The contact was intermittent, but it was continual for all those years, beginning in 2005, and ending in 2013. There was often many months between contact, but every year, there was a connection between them. I know there were thousands and thousands of text messages, emails, phone messages, phone calls… all destroyed. He was a master at hiding the relationship when he was with me. AND, he was a master at blocking me out when he was with her. The difference, when he came home from his business trips or whatnot, he didn’t have to win me back. He didn’t have to win me at all. He had to win her, and I wanted to know EXACTLY how he did it. I knew it would be painful, but it was not really about what he was going to say, but that he could do it. That he could tell me what he really said to her after say, 12 months of no contact. As I sat there on my side of the bed waiting for him to give me a real answer, I could feel him shutting down. I could feel him going to that place of self protection where he rationalizes that he doesn’t have to tap into the truth. He doesn’t want to go back there. He doesn’t remember, remember? After a heated conversation where I said I knew he did remember, I picked up my pillow and headed for the door. I told him that I would sleep on the couch until he did deem it important enough to remember.

And that is exactly what I did. I went and slept on the couch. Or more accurately, I laid wide awake on the sofa staring at the dark ceiling willing myself to sleep. I knew the time had come for me to make a decision of whether I could continue living with someone who was willing to rationalize away my needs. Not only someone who had decimated our relationship with his lies, but someone who was unwilling to be open, honest, and forthright with me when I ask. I know recovery is a long process and hiding behind lies and deceit is the trademark of an addict, but time has run out for me. My patience is too thin now. I rarely ask for any details of his secret life anymore, but when I do, I need a loving, kind, caring, honest and open response… and nothing less. Anything else, is cruel.

The following morning Blue Eyes was off to his 12 step meeting and fellowship. He returned home to take care of the dogs. He acted as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened the night before. He acted as if he didn’t say anything, it would all just disappear in a poof of his own warped imagination. When he gauged my mood and realized I wasn’t “over it,” he told me he was planning on staying home, going to his office, and working on remembering. He would do that for me. I told him I was going to take a shower and then head out and spend about five hours by myself away from the house. While I was in the shower, Blue Eyes left the house and didn’t return. So, apparently, he had decided he wasn’t going to stay home after all. When I returned home many hours later, Blue Eyes was not home. He finally did show up about 30 minutes later and headed straight to his office without speaking to me. About an hour later, I headed to the kitchen to prepare dinner. I put chicken and veggies in the oven to bake. Blue Eyes was in his office lying on the floor talking with our son about his own tortured childhood. He had not spoken with me, or presented me with the answer to my question. I looked at Blue Eyes with disgust as he shut the door to his office, metaphorically shutting the door on me and my needs. I realized it was time for me to go. He still had not spoken a word to me since his return. I went upstairs and commenced my plan for leaving the house I had diligently and lovingly renovated for the past 18 years, and leaving the relationship I had given every ounce of my heart and soul to for 32 years.

A few minutes later, our 22 year old son came in to my bedroom and said, “Mommy, I want to help you.” My heart sank. He said, “I think you need to talk to someone. You need to talk with someone about your anger towards Daddy.” My heart hit the floor. I was open and honest with him. I told him I didn’t want him to feel like he needed to carry any of my burden. He had his own heavy load. He said that when I get angry at Blue Eyes, it makes Blue Eyes crawl back into that deep dark place from his childhood where he feels bad about himself. Where his addiction lives.” I burst into tears and through my sobs I told my son that where his father crawls in response to the consequences of his own actions is completely on him. That his father’s recovery and healing is all about not going to that place. There is no way a person can inflict this kind of trauma and then expect not to have to face his own truth. My actions are not designed to make his father feel bad. My actions are designed to protect me from further pain. If his father is not healing, he should not be in a relationship with anyone but himself. My son so wisely commented that his father is healing but it takes a lot of time to undo the damage of decades. I agree with him, it certainly does. BUT, it does not preclude a liar from now telling the truth. I asked his father a simple question that potentially didn’t have such a simple answer, but the truth is there for his father to either share, or hide. I said at the time of my asking for this truth, I was exhausted and in pain, NOT ANGRY. When his father deflected, ignored and denied, I became angry. That I have a few ground rules and they must be upheld. No deviation. There is no amount of therapy that is going to make me feel safe in a marriage with someone who won’t face his own truth. Therapy will counsel me to walk away for my own health, happiness and safety. I don’t need to go there to figure that one out.

Approximately 30 minutes later, Blue Eyes entered our bedroom with two sheets of paper in his hands. He sat down on the bed and told me that he created a script of a conversation, as best he could remember it, that had transpired between him and the other woman after one of his long no contact periods. During those times he was not in contact with her at all, trying to manage his addiction, he often fell to porn and masturbation. We now know, there really is no managing addiction without serious help. His time with the other woman was the most demeaning, disheartening, and the lowest periods of his life, according to him. He did what he had to do in order to get his ultimate drug. He chose this particular woman because she was broken, needy, lonely, easy, highly sexual, has extremely low self esteem, thinks sex=love, and because he didn’t care about her. He asked if he could read his script out loud to me. Here is how it went:

After many many months of no contact by either of them, he would start with an email.

Red (his nickname for her): I miss you terribly and can’t stop thinking about you. I know I said we needed to stop seeing each other but I just can’t help myself. I hope you are doing okay. I have an upcoming trip and wanted to see if you would consider going with me. I know that you are angry with me and that we have not had contact for a long time but I wanted to know if you would talk to me. Can you forgive me?

Usually it would take her a few days to respond.

Baby, I miss you so much. I have not stopped thinking about you either. I tried to go out with other men, but it just was not the same. You have ruined me. Yes, I would love to go. What is the timing and where? I have to see if I can get the time off. Please give me a call when you can.

Telephone Call:

BE: Hi, it’s me.

Red: Hi Baby.

BE: It’s so good to hear your voice.

Red: Oh Baby, I am so craving you. It has been way too long. My pussy aches for your cock.

BE: Oh my god. Stop that.

Red: Do you really miss me?

BE: Yes. I really miss YOU. It’s like I am being drawn to you. I can’t control it. The draw is so strong.

Red: I know, me too. How are things with the wifey?

BE: They are okay, but you know she is not affectionate, we have sex maybe every couple weeks, if I’m lucky.

Red: God I don’t understand that at all. How is that possible. I would fuck you every day. God I love your cock.

BE: Are you going to fuck me?

Red: I am going to ride your cock. Mommy’s going to make you pinch her titties. I can’t wait. Hey, are you guys seeing a counselor? It sounds like if you saw a counselor… have you told her what you want?

BE: She won’t see a counselor. I have told her what I want and she thinks there is something wrong with me.

Red: I don’t understand… if you love her, why you need to see me.

BE: She is just not loving and affectionate. I need affection. I am attracted to you. Like I said, I just don’t totally understand it, but I am completely drawn to you.

Red: Am I just a booty call? It’s okay if I am…

BE: No, you are not just a booty call. I’ll send you the trip info now so you can check your schedule. Let me know.

____

He came up with this in a very short period of time, so I am sure if he actually thought about it more, which he desperately doesn’t want to do, he could come up with a lot more. Like I said, there were thousands of texts, emails, and phone calls between them for years. She always brought me up, but I was always the scapegoat. I don’t really want to hear any more of this for obvious reasons. All I wanted was the truth, when I asked for it. I wanted to know what he had to say to get this woman back in bed with him after months and months of giving her absolutely nothing. As it turns out, not a lot. I needed him to show me that he was willing to do something uncomfortable, for me. To show me that my needs mean something to him. After all, he did these things. If they are uncomfortable for him, that is all on him.

Of course as he was reading the words above, I was sick to my stomach, and I am sure he was too. I expressed that one big, huge concern of mine that rattles around inside my head more often than I would like… he expended so much effort on getting and keeping that strange and fucked up relationship with a woman who thought sex was love, and yet he didn’t feel the same responsibility to me. I was a foregone conclusion. I was an obligation, an extension of the life that was part of the real world, not the fantasy. Realizing me and our family were not the aspects of his life that brought him great excitement, but the things in his life he was using that sick drug to cope with, it breaks my heart. I told him I don’t feel special. He expended so much effort on his addiction and his drug, and now he does that, theoretically, with his recovery… where do I fit in? The one thing in his life that never let him down. The one person who never left his side, never blackmailed him, never belittled him, never neglected him. Where do I fit in?

76 thoughts on “A tumble, then a fall

  1. Kat, you are a wordsmith. So many good bloggers are. But words are not the same for everyone & we have to be careful not to always accept words at face value. My H sent Pig Shit a text telling her they had a long future together – that it was written in the stars! He sent another saying that he loved her soooooo much. I’ve never received any such declarations. But, he has never needed such protestations in order to manipulate me for a bit of sex in some motel room.
    If we abandon words for just a moment and take a closer look at actions the reality can take a different perspective. Did H think they had a future together? Where is he now? Did he love her soooooo much? Where is he now?
    I am ashamed that women fall so easily into believing that men are in love with them because they fuck them. But words help disguise the desolate truth.
    Overcoming betrayal and working on marriage recovery is a long and difficult journey and words help us to communicate – but so do actions. Maybe they speak even louder than words xxxx

    Liked by 1 person

    • I agree with everything you say, MR. There is also another layer here for us, and that is that my husband has harbored resentment for as long as he can remember. It is an emotion he is intimately familiar with and he rationalizes that any time he feels like something wasn’t his decision, or things didn’t go exactly the way he wanted, he can use resentment as his excuse for bad behavior. If I ask for uncomfortable information, resentment rears it’s ugly head, and I am being unreasonable and he doesn’t have to do it. In the past he used the other woman as his coping method for all that resentment in his life. He had this before I ever met him, and he had learned to hide it and pretend. He still carries it with him daily. I guess what I am saying is I am tired of being the target of his resentment and everything that comes after… it is not fair to me, and he knows it, but old habits die hard. So, in the end, it was not at all about what they said to each other in that sick affair vacuum, but in fact how he reacts now when I ask him a simple question that he doesn’t want to answer. Thank you for hanging in there with me. They say it can take years to recover from infidelity… and sex addiction and all the ingrained and destructive habits stemming back to childhood, just doesn’t make it any easier. xoxo

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  2. I am behind on my reading, I feel very upset after reading this post, because when I read this dialogue, it’s like I’m reading through your eyes, and it F’ing hurts. It’s ugly. So ugly. I know u have to live with this. BE gets lots of support in his group, and you must be thinking, “what about me”? I don’t know how to give u good advice, because my marriage didn’t succeed. But it sounds like right now your environment feels extremely toxic and claustrophobic. I think you need a break. Maybe stay with a family member for a while? Somewhere where your needs will come first for a change?

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    • Thank you, C. This is a rough and rocky road we are on. If I can’t handle the road, I need to turn off, and go a different direction. I realize I need to be kind to myself, but there is no question that if I walk away from the situation even for a little bit, it will help, but I feel I need to stay if we are both going to make this work. I am feeling better although there is still a lot BE and I need to work on together. I am not joking when I say recovery from addiction is a long and difficult journey. It was a painful couple of days, but I am doing better now. Sometimes it just takes a melt down to get to what is really going on, for both of us. xoxo

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  3. I was unfortunate enough to read some of the email exchanges, although I decided pretty quickly that the gory details were going to be too much, and broad brushtrokes would be best for me. Even so, what I’ve seen plays in my head on a constant loop. Now I’ve decided I don’t need to know exactly what he did, and how many times he did it. I know it’s ‘lots’, I don’t need to know exact figures. The What seems less important than the Why right now.

    At first I was inconsolable that my OH chose to act out with prostitutes. Now I think I might prefer that to the alternative. At least it was a business transaction, no feeling, no emotion, at least that remains mine alone. I feel for you.

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    • I do honestly wish he had hired prostitutes. I know the betrayal is just as painful, and getting to the bottom of the Why is just as crucial, but at least there wouldn’t be someone out there who thinks my husband loves her (even though most everyone I know believes she knows the real truth, she was just trying to punish me for what my husband did to her). All I can say is that I know my husband thought of her as a free prostitute and the only payment was really all the lies he told her, especially about me. I am sorry you had to see any emails, or this happened at all. xxx

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  4. A tumble, then a fall… and then you get back up again! Infidelity, the gift that just keeps giving! Sorry to hear that you fell but I know you’ll get right back up again. Some of us were unlucky enough to read our husbands words to the whores from the get go… not sure what is worse, but I do know that reading them was the hardest thing I have ever had to do and the words are forever etched upon my heart, my broken heart, and I will never be able to forget the things my husband told her and the words he used! Motherfucker!!

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    • I’m back up, PW, yes I am. Ready to take another beating in hopes that I win this battle some day. I think having to read the words, depending on how many and what they said, is worse. I have the one phone call from the OW seared in my brain, but she never did say the word sex or affair or that she loved my husband, or anything. I didn’t have to read any creepy pornographic “love” notes, but I can imagine it. Her phone call was so strange and delusional, but it catapulted me into a trauma I never thought imaginable. The months and months of stalking didn’t help either. But, having those words stuck in my brain… I don’t want to imagine it. BE really didn’t want me to ever find that shit. I guess I have to just let it go because what ever was said, was just fucked up no matter how you slice it. xoxo

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  5. I have to say the anger thing I relate to so well, my husband just would not allow me to be angry with him, I asked him once what he wanted me to do with all this anger, was he going to help me with anything I was feeling?? The emotional abandonment hurt probably as much if not worse than the affair xx

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    • They claim it’s over, it’s done, they’ll never do it again… but what about what they already did? What about the pain? I agree that the emotional abandonment, expecting us to just go along, and then denying us the kind, gentle, honest and understanding treatment we deserve for even letting them back into the house… it’s mind boggling. xxx

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  6. You may or may not be referring to my blog but I’m so sorry it triggered you so badly. Some days I read a blog and want to give the blogger a massive hug and let them sob into my shoulder, so I’m sending you a huge cyber hug and sending you strength xxxxx

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    • You know, castleblocs, I don’t know if it ever will completely. I am building on days and days with very little triggering and pain, so I know it gets better, but not sure it ever goes away once and for all. I need the memories of how I felt before d-day, and during the past two years, in order to make sure what comes next does not walk me into a trap. Eyes wide open now. {{{hugs}}}

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  7. It seems like just when the ground beneath us gets stable again, an earthquake hits. I’m sorry for the pain you are in. I do know that most of what I see as “setbacks” usually lead to more clarity and a step towards healing. Its like breaking a bone. Its healing ok, but something isn’t quite right. So you have to have it re-broken and re-set so it can heal properly.
    I’m so glad that you can see how this is truly his problem. That you aren’t responsible for him, his actions or his feelings. I think you’ve come to a place of great personal healing and growth. Good for you for upholding your boundaries. ((hugs))

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  8. *sighs
    In my case, when she first cheated on me, I got access to plenty of their conversations before they knew I knew… and it was terribly destructive for me to read it. (wish I never read it)
    The following times, I made an effort not to look too much in to it, and didn’t got access to almost no conversations between the others – just enough to confirm my suspicions. I could imagine they would be very similar to the first time and equally disruptive to me.
    It’s incredibly painful to read that s**t… but, it’s a clear reminder to figure out what has been going on behind your back.
    *hugs*

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    • So sorry you had to see the actual words. The phone call and subsequent messages from the OW are seared into my brain… I don’t really need any more ugly words like that floating around in there, but I do need honesty in the relationship. Sometimes it comes in very painful forms. Many hugs back, sir. This is an incredibly difficult process.

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      • Yeah. Seared is the correct word to describe how those words latch in to your brain and heart. I would advise you against finding them out. They will only hurt you and will not advance anything in anyway.
        The process is already painful as it is. Still, it’s hard to balance the full disclosure honesty with the absence of proof/mails/whatever. It’s a impossible balance to figure out.
        Best of luck to you too and hold on. It eases off with time, that I know.

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  9. God Kat, reading this has made me feel sick to my stomach. It’s like peering into the abyss and seeing some horrific monster coming up at you. When I accepted the reality of his affair I think I sort of made a ‘file’ if you like, in my head, so anything that was too overwhelming went into the file – affectionate conversations, regularity of contact, sexual contact, I would think ‘well you accepted an affair happened that’s part of that.’ This post makes me want to open the file and lay bare the ugly, but I don’t know if I would recover. I think you’re very brave. I have also been thinking lately about the romantic nature of these extramarital relationships, how the romance is created in a vacuum, and how the relationship partners must enter the vacuum to conduct the relationship, because they cannot exist outside of that.
    If that conversation that BE scripted is any indication of how they actually spoke, he must’ve been very sick. It is stomach churning.

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    • Yes, so true, the affair cannot live outside the vacuum, at least not how it is being carried on… with secrets, lies, lust, and abandonment of responsibility. If it is found out, and they continue on with it in the open, it is just a relationship, without all the intrigue and excitement. It is not the same. I think that is why so many of the relationships don’t continue past the hidden affair. They are just not exciting anymore.

      I have this kind of personality where I need to know the truth. I needed to know the facts, the details, I needed to reconstruct just exactly what happened, and how it happened. But most of all, I needed him to be able to finally be completely honest with me. And, because of my personality, I felt like if he kept things hidden, they would fester inside him and he would never truly be past it. The demon lives inside those lies, in my opinion. But remember, my husband is an addict with decades of acting out and shameful thoughts to overcome.

      I am pretty sure the conversation he scripted is spot on and just the tip of the iceberg. Remember, this was him just trying to gauge if he could get her to go on a trip with him. Once they were in a hotel room together and then a bed, right next to each other, god only knows what was said. Well, they know, but they are two very fucked up mother fuckers. So there is that. BE knows what he was doing was a sickness. I don’t know what that woman who lives 15 minutes away from where I sit right now thinks. It doesn’t really matter in the scheme of things, now, but I still wish she would disappear off the face of the planet.

      xoxo

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  10. This is so hard to read, and I don’t have an emotional connection to him. I can’t imagine how painful it was for you. There really is no easy way through this, no “END” where the pain stops, is there? Your son sounds sensitive and intelligent. I love that response to him was loving and reasonable, and absolutely uncompromising about the fact that the pain BE feels is because of the actions he took. You are so kind and level headed!

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    • It was very painful, I will not lie. There is no easy way, and there is no end. But it does get a lot better. I suppose I should write what happened next, so readers don’t think I am forever sitting at that spot, wondering… This younger son is so very sensitive and intelligent. He is like me also in that he wants justice to prevail, but he doesn’t want anyone to get hurt. It is a dilemma. Since literally the day of the d-day phone call, I have been talking to BE about consequences. Since he hid and lied so much as a child, trying to avoid the consequences of his actions… which were never very bad (but you know, the in-laws), I think he learned that he can avoid all bad consequences. Not this time. He wants me in his life, desperately, but I am no longer going to be handed to him on a silver platter. He has to work hard for this now… not just for his recovery (healing), but for me. He took me for granted for way too long. I really am kind and level headed, but sometimes it doesn’t work in my favor. Things don’t always work out. This time, however, I think they eventually will. It will just not be wrapped up in the pretty little package I once imagined. Big hugs to you! ❤

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  11. Kat have you ever wondered why all the women around BE turn unstable and crazy, even if for a while ?
    Post D Day you did for sometime.The OW did too when BE was with her.
    I understand that she has not called / stalked you for quite sometime now.
    Is it that he brings out the worst in the women by his constant lying, gas lighting, selfishness and false promises ?
    The OW had been told that you were withhollding affection and sex.You have been told that the OW was blackmailing him.
    The OW ,as per BE, threatened suicide.You attempted to harm yourself.What is it about BE that drives women to do this?
    He took so long to remember what he said to the OW,it was not a one time conversation but a pattern repeated many times and he could not remember ?It was not as if you were asking for a verbatim report.BE is a man who runs a large business so very successfully and to think he doesn’t recall what he had been saying to the woman he was with for 8 years,even if intermittently.
    It seems he wanted to take his time to think things through and ensure it fit with whatever he had told you earlier.
    I have been through the exact same shit, AFF,work affairs,women in multiple stages of grooming.Had been in reconciliation for a few months.Heard the exact same stuff from ex as BE.Once I was out ,only then I could see clearly the mindfuckery.
    BE has bee sober and that’s very encouraging.The past will just have to be put at rest because a sex addict is never ever going to give a full disclosure.
    Kudos to your courage,my friend.

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    • Thank you, Sanity, for your comment. I don’t believe the first two women that BE had sexual relations with were unstable because of him. The first one was in an incredibly unhappy marriage and she and BE used each other. The hunt, for BE, was very long, but once he had that ultimate drug (and it was his first indiscretion with another woman) he ended it. The secretary was not hurt. She pursued him. I believe she had no idea what it meant to be in a loving relationship and she used sex to try and lure him in to a relationship. No way that was ever going to work. She walked away. I was not at all unstable until I learned the truth and then, yes, most definitely, trauma took over. Living with an addict is traumatic. And yes, the lies, gas lighting, selfishness, and false promises perpetuate it. If he wasn’t trying to change. If he wasn’t in recovery every day, this blog would be very different. As it is, it is my story WITH a recovering sex addict. Tomorrow, it could be a different story.

      The OW on the other hand went into the relationship messed up. Even though I only know her through BE (plus the phone call and other correspondence she sent) there is no question the whole reason she engaged in this type of relationship in the first place is because she is unstable, broken if you will. He did not break her, but he abused her. That is what addicts do, but often they do it in a very loving and nurturing way. He definitely exacerbated her already ingrained issues. The card she sent to our house was a clear reflection of her struggle with her own reality (not to mention she obviously had had ME followed because she knew the name of my therapist). The other woman was blackmailing him. She called our home and my mobile phone often. I saw the calls, I thought they were my MIL. One of the reasons this went on as long as it did, was for a couple reasons. First, I don’t answer blocked calls or even calls from numbers I don’t recognize. Second, Blue Eyes took the bait every time for eight years. He called her back and begged her to stop calling me. She never left a message because she didn’t want me to actually find out while there was a chance he was still going to spend some time with her. When she realized it was really over, she kicked it into high gear and called my mobile phone obsessively, over and over and over. And then she did keep it up for months and months, until we called the police.

      What drives me and the OW to be miserable and want to commit suicide or harm themselves? You are correct, it is Blue Eyes’ selfish, addictive behavior. No question. But that is on us. As women, we need to learn to deal with the reality of our life. I am sure hers was an empty threat to get him to call her. For me, my harm is a release of a deep, heartbreaking pain. Unfortunately, it works every time. The physical and superficial pain of the cut, absolves the feelings that my heart is literally going to break in two. It is what it is. I have learned to manage my pain much better now.

      Blue Eyes did not take so long to remember what he wrote or said to her… he just did not want to write it down, say it, tell me. It was painful. He doesn’t want to go back to those feelings. I don’t really care at this point what he does, or does not want to do. There were new things in what he wrote this time that I had not heard before. Regardless, all I needed him to do was answer me without hiding. He did not do that. The bigger issue, however, is me feeling special to him now while he is diligently working his recovery. I do not question his recovery. I question his ability to be a genuine loving and giving partner to me. That’s it. You are correct, a sex addict is never going to give full disclosure, for whatever reason. This is a treacherous journey. I have no idea where it will lead. I live it every day. I am so sorry you had to go through this same kind of shit, but I hope that you now feel happy with the life you have chosen. Every day is a choice for me. Thanks again for your thoughtful comment.

      Liked by 1 person

  12. My husband is the same when I ask similar questions. He always says he doesn’t remember. I told him on numerous occasions that if he was complaining about me to her he should tell me what he had to complain about. If I was making him so unhappy he should have talked to me instead of go looking for sex with another woman. All he said was that sometimes my tone was aggressive!!! I know he won’t tell me the truth because he lied about me to get sex off her. I am still traumatised when I think of what he must have said to cause her to report me to the police for domestic abuse. I will never forgive him for that. His sex partner is a manipulative sociopath. How can these men be so utterly stupid. Hugs to you Kat x

    Liked by 1 person

    • Yes, that is it. He lied about you to get what he wanted. We are all human beings. I just said to my husband the other day… I am not a blow up doll or a stepford wife (robot). I am a real human being with needs and wants and emotions. I am not going to just let you behave however you want and not react. If you behave well towards me, I will respond in kind. If you disregard me, lie to me, avoid me, or appear resentful, I will be upset. If his sex partner is a manipulative sociopath (and I believe she is), maybe your husband didn’t say anything at all… maybe she came up with it all on her own. I don’t know how they can be so stupid. I don’t think I will ever have the answer to that question, but their stupidity hurts. Hugs to you too! ❤

      Liked by 1 person

  13. I’m sorry you’re struggling but I’m so proud of you for not backing down. I can only imagine how painful to hear and how ashamed he must feel after reading that to you. Just remember this is just a bump in a very long road. I think it’s good that you’re not being predictable. Maybe sometimes we’re too good and dependable ya know? Hugs xo!

    Liked by 3 people

  14. I’d bet a lot that she had other relationships like the one with him, so when he appeared they could just resume with little to no accountability for the time lapses, no demands for explanations, no responsibility to apologize for the gaps. If that’s the case then it could explain one of the biggest pulls for him–never having to worry about not being good enough, thoughtful enough, responsible enough. Just resume the play at the bookmarked stopping point. Even if it’s not the case that she had other similar relationships, she was just smart enough to know how to leave the door cracked open with the promise of no shit when he walked through it.
    He’s a smart guy and in general people are attracted to intellectually similar people; she clearly was not stupid. What challenge would there be in a long term relationship with an idiot?

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    • Hmmm. Interesting comment. Perhaps Blue Eyes should answer it because he knew her, I did not. I don’t believe she had any other relationships. She is an incredibly lonely woman. An alcoholic hoarder. I agree she is not stupid, she was incredibly manipulative, but actually she and Blue Eyes had very little in common except his addiction. Sex was it. Once again, after hearing BE’s story, two therapists believe she is potentially a sex and love addict herself, and most likely has borderline personality disorder. BE never thought of having to be good enough, thoughtful enough or responsible enough because she expected so little. Her idea of being a good wife (as explained to Blue Eyes by her) was greeting her husband when he came home from work with a drink and a blow job (she can’t cook). The idea that the door was cracked with no shit, is unfortunately for BE, not the case. She was abusive, she yelled, she hit, she threatened and blackmailed. She called my phone all the time in order to get his attention. He just told me this morning something he remembered from 2012… BE was on his way to meet our older son and his friends in San Francisco for dinner. On the way, the OW left a message for him saying she was going to commit suicide. That no one cared about her and she was going to go up to the mountain in a remote area (it was January) and kill herself and no one would find her until Spring… he listened to the message and swore to himself at that moment (and for the hundredth time) that he wasn’t going to call her back, ever. She was just manipulating him. He called a few weeks later and invited her to Japan. She was still alive. She went with him.

      The answer to your last question, which was probably rhetorical… is that BE is a sex addict and all he was after was secret sex. He didn’t want a long term relationship with her. He swore to himself every single time that he was never going back. Worse than her being an idiot, is that she is a disturbed, angry, hateful, abusive, and potentially dangerous woman. When he was in his addiction, he was delusional. He did not seek out a long term relationship with her or anyone.

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        • B, it doesn’t annoy me actually. But I have to respond in the only way I know how. With the truth as I know it. I know your story. Your story is not the OW’s story. Please don’t think I am speaking about you. I am speaking only about BE and his OW. If I sound angry, I am not angry at you or your comment. I am angry at BE and the OW and the predicament I am in, which sucks and which I don’t deserve. Remember, this woman stalked me and showed up on a plane with me and god only knows what her motives really were at that point.

          I hope you do continue to comment. I enjoy the dialogue.

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    • I think you make an interesting point, B. The thing is, we can decide that some of these women are not attractive (in so many ways, least of all, looks) but they attracted at least one man. Of course, some are physically attractive, that is of no consequence here. I said the same thing to my partner, “she probably had a couple of you on a string.” He was adamant that there was no way that was the case. But the reality is, their AP may have well been cheating on them! When I was diagnosed with two STIs, he re-thought his complete denial of her “faithfulness” to him. Maybe she never slept with anyone else during that 15 month period, but maybe she did, we shall never know, but the very eye-opening possibility to him was one of many watershed moments. Maybe the woman who he cheated with was cheating on him, bloody amazing they never consider that! If BE’s OW was a sex addict, as has been proposed, well, who knows? (And quite honestly, who cares?) They are sick, predatory excuses for people. And anyone who is prepared to be used and disrespected in this manner needs too have a think about who they are and how they value themselves. Let alone the discourse that their married partner feeds them about these asexual spouses who don’t love them – 9 times out of 10, it is a narrative that has little or no truth, one they use to bait the hook.

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      • Well, Paula, you know I am not going to let this comment go unattended. 😉 We all have unique situations of course, however, part of BE’s sex addict pathology was that he was always trying to stop his behavior. It was not an affair per se, but a sick obsessive addiction. He BEGGED his OW to get a boyfriend. Every time he emailed her, a part of him hoped she wouldn’t respond, or she would say she had found someone else. Thus the comment about how he had ruined her for other men. She knew he wanted her to find her own man. She knew he was never going to be with her. She is also bat shit crazy, so there is that, regardless of what she looks like. Also, please understand I said Sex and LOVE addict, NOT sex addict. In this case, a female who uses sex to replace the love she does not have in her life. A sort of obsessive longing for love, but freely gives sex in it’s place because she feels like it is all she deserves. She also by her own admission obsessively masturbates. I know for sure Blue Eyes would not have been jealous or upset if she had told him she was seeing someone else. He has said numerous times to me since d-day that he wished she had been seeing someone else. He had no feelings for her. It would have forced him out of the sick, repetitive loop he was in. Most likely he would have eventually found someone to replace her, as that was his pattern. He used that tactic with the slutty secretary. When she asked for more, he ended it and told her to find her own man… and she did and he even gave the guy career advice!!! He was always trying to manage the demon and never would have thought of the OW getting a new man as being cheated on. This much I do know.

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        • Oh, I know. I guess I was speaking in general “affair” terms, nor specifically sex, OR sex and love addict terms. Of course there are many different pathologies, and some sex addicts have no trouble about sex with those who are in relationships, or having sex with others. Not being specific to BE at all 😆

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  15. You fit in because YOU are the one he wants. I can’t make any rationalization for your husband’s behavior. I struggle with the same thing here trying to make sense of my husband’s idiotic thoughts and actions. But something that our marriage counselor told my husband-who like yours is also a SA, that I keep thinking about is that healing is like an onion. It has layers and you peel it back one by one. It makes you cry and sometimes you might need a break before you continue to peel. My husband now realizes that he needs to work towards healing for himself first! In the beginning though all of it was for me. He didn’t want to lose me. He didn’t want to lose our family. I imagine it might be the same for your husband.
    Our husbands acted in absolute insanity- as a sane person their actions wil never make sense to us and as they get out of the darkness and become more sane- it makes no sense to them either. It’s embarrassing for my husband. He hates talking about it because he hates the person he allowed himself to be. I think if I could talk to your husband I would tell him I know it’s hard for him but it’s hard for you too. You’re so right that it’s absolutely exhausting. I’m laying under the covers right now after a much needed cry because it was one big trigger after another today that i had to get my my mind and heart through. You get tired of it. Tired of waiting for it to end – wondering how many months and years it will take? You’re both struggling- but if you decided you’re going to struggle together than you – his wife, truly need to come first and he needs to get over himself and come to your aid! Its definitely time for that and you both will be better for it. You are absolutely pulling the larger load and if you need help with the load from time to time he NEEDS to be there for you.!!

    Liked by 3 people

    • I agree. He needs to help me carry this load, because if not for his behavior, I wouldn’t have this load to carry. You are correct it is all extremely difficult, but I do think once they are ensconced in recovery, as my husband has been for two years now, they start to lose track of their duty to us and our healing. The better I am (I have no triggers anymore that put me in bed crying… I hope you get there soon too), the less he thinks I need from him and the opposite is actually true. Thank you so much for your thoughtful, kind and generous comment. I am the one he wants. It was never any different. This whole process is incredibly stressful and soul sucking. Hugs to you. ❤

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  16. What scares him now – and rightfully so – is that I don’t even cry about what things were done anymore; I just cry to myself for being so stupid/not loving myself for so long, as I mentally review our entire history AGAIN because of the addition of new information. I’m dismissive about the apologies and incantations. Grateful for MORE truth, to gain back small shreds of self-confidence back up (as in, “Okay good – it didn’t SEEM right and it REALLY was NOT. It stuck in my craw because it has been a lie.”)… but the gushing or “remorse” or “love” has little to no effect anymore.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Yes, again. The gushing and remorse and shallow demonstrations of “love” have very little positive effect. I think I am definitely at a point where I am numb to all that. I need open and honest and forthright communication about what he did and who he is, then and now. The truth. As simple as that. So glad you are loving yourself now, IH. ❤

      Liked by 2 people

  17. Oh Kat, I hate hearing that you’re struggling. 😔
    H and I have had similar conversations this week. I’m unsure how he expects to learn to be happy with just one woman, whether that’s me or someone else, when he’s never tried before. I’m not sure I’m willing to be his Guinea pig to see if he’s able to do so. The one thing that keeps coming to me is how “un-special” I have been to him. In all these years he was never mean to me, but while living the ” married life” with me, he knew fun and exciting sex or more interesting companionship was only a phone call or text away. He swears he wants it to be just the two of us from here on out, but I am doubtful at best…hugs to you. You are so amazingly strong.☀️

    Liked by 4 people

    • Thank you, Sunshine. I have to be real here on my blog. It is the one outlet in my life where I can just let it all hang out. I do believe that my husband does only want to be with me. I am actually not worried about him relapsing with other women or porn or any of that. What I worry about is him being able to treat me like I am special because I, like you, feel very “un-special.” Likewise my husband was never overtly mean to me or our children. He was more checked out than anything. Always putting his work first. Now we know the truth about that. I don’t doubt that he loves me and wants to be only with me sexually (he never wanted to be with anyone else as a life partner), but I still need more. He is working at it. Some days I run out of strength and I need reassurance and I need him to be the one to give it to me. The less I need him to do that, it seems, the more he forgets how. I cannot tolerate the defiance and the avoidance. To me it is cruel. As we move forward, he is going to have to work harder to keep me here… not JUST work on his own recovery. Unbeknownst to me, I stood idly by while he fed his addiction. I will not stand idly by while he works his recovery. I need to be loved and respected, daily. It is only fair. It is what I gave and give to him. Thank you so much for the hugs. I need them. I do think I am strong, strong enough to walk away if I need to, and strong enough to stay if I want to. {{{hugs}}} ❤

      Liked by 6 people

        • Actually, CR, no. I am honestly not afraid of him relapsing and his relapsing sexually is the farthest thing from my mind right now. He has been sober for over two years and hasn’t been with another woman for more than 2 1/2 years. At first it was a fear, a serious and debilitating fear, but not any more. We have moved past all that. He is fixing himself and he takes his sobriety VERY seriously. If he does relapse, it will be the end of our marriage and I am prepared for that if it ever happens. It is tough to even think about anything else right now for you I would suppose. You see, I never knew my husband was cheating and by the time I found out, he had stopped months before. At this point I just need him to make me feel special. He needs to know how important being open and honest is to my healing. Easier said than done.

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            • Well, I totally understand considering where you are at right now. A good part of his life at this point is about recovering from sex addiction. It’s a big deal. He never wanted to do what he did and he feels deep shame and humiliation. He wants to change. Change just does not come that easy. Stay your path and use your instincts, but don’t go crazy, girl. ❤

              Liked by 1 person

              • I totally shouldn’t bother you on your journey. We all have our path to wander. I am just in awe of your ability to.. Keep taking it in. Taking it on. Have to deal with it. I don’t know how I would come to terms with it, believe anything. So please just don’t listen to anything I say, I am just totally baffled – what would I do if this is what my husband told me… And I don’t think I would ever be able to be as on his side as you. You still so much wear it on your back. It hurts. I’m in awe of how strong you are to do this.

                Liked by 1 person

  18. I took a similar stance last week also… I found out that I was right all along.

    No matter how many times I tell him, it seems that he doesn’t TRULY GET that I’m not being harsh or dramatic when I claim that every time I find out a new lie – no matter if it’s big or small or a litany of both – we are back to square one.

    That every time I’ve asked him for the truth or re-counted what he’s told me, saying it doesn’t make sense, and he didn’t offer the truth up… that’s a NEW time he has lied to me and/or withheld the truth on purpose. He would see me emotionally crash and burn, listen to me review everything, beg him for the truth, and would be told that NOT having it was harming me. And then said that he’d told me everything.

    Every time that happened, he was showing me how much I don’t matter. That protecting his lies and reputation, to himself, is more important – STILL – than helping me recovery from his betrayals. Showing me that he, apparently, STILL doesn’t think I am deserving of the truth. He saw fit to lie to me EVERY DAY the truth went untold, ESPECIALLY went I was distraught about the lack of it.

    “But really – NOW there’s nothing more to tell!”

    Uh huh. I’ve heard that how many hundreds of times? It seems being a liar is who he is. I now am left to believe that there will always be more to tell… because what other history has he given me to go on? NONE.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Yep. It is not fun to look in the face of your supposed life partner and realize you are not important enough for them to tell the truth to. They would rather theoretically protect themselves and their lies, than help us heal. It is a sickness. And I keep plugging along…

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        • Nope. Well I guess. I dunno. Apparently ho-hub wants to apply for jobs this week. I can’t ask or he will be obstinate and purposefully not apply. So I have to be careful and mindful and quiet like a mouse and perfect and if the stars align and nothing else ever comes up at all, he might try to get a job. You’ve got to be kidding me. So irritating

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            • He has a job, he’s just grossly underemployed. His diploma could get him about 10 bucks more an hour starting than he makes at his current job. There would be regular raises as he gets hourly bumps. There’s also lots of nursing positions around which pay differentials or premiums so he could choose to take a role where he made more than just hourly, and there’s overtime depending on your unit or hospital. He could actually have a decent wage. I think what’s irritating me right now is the laziness. I’m beyond the scope of the traitorous cheating shit, because if I am away from him that won’t affect me anymore. And I just can’t think on it because I’m trying not to lose my mind. It makes me focus on the practical things-In addition to that, I’m holding the bag for our money and we absolutely do not have any time to waste when it comes to him making more income.

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  19. First…send HIM to the sofa. You claim the bed. He cheated…he should be the one who is uncomfortable.
    I’m sorry but his guy is a scumbag. I know you need answers…God knows…I know…but “they” don’t ever want to talk about it because it means they have to be held accountable. These men cheat on good women…they deserve the sluts, whores and tramps they cheated with.
    Your son…God love him. He is trying to stand by your side in the way he knows how….just make sure he isn’t being “coached” by the scumbag.

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    • Well, Laurel, our sofa is actually quite comfortable, but more than that I just needed to be in a location that wasn’t our marital bed.

      In many ways, Blue Eyes is a scumbag. A scumbag addict. This is such an imperfect life situation to be in. I know I do not deserve it. I have told him many times he deserves to have to actually live with the other woman. He wouldn’t last a week with her. She is an angry, abusive alcoholic. A lonely bitter woman about 9 years older than my husband. She is large and unattractive (doesn’t even try to look presentable), can’t cook, AND is a hoarder… you know the kind that has to carve a path to their bed, and then clear off the bed so she could even entertain a lurid, secret sex partner. I am everything she is not. His addiction was the sick part of him and therefore he sought out sickness in it.

      My son is an angel. He is trying the only way his young 22 years knows how. He is definitely not being “coached” by my husband to do anything wrong or to even feel sorry for his father. He was angry at his father for so many months and it did nothing but send him deeper into his own demons. He has climbed his way out, is seeing a therapist, and is completely clean of all his unhealthy behavior. I am so proud of him. I don’t think he was trying to help his father in any way and he has said many times he understands if we don’t stay married. Most of his friends’ parents are divorced. I just haven’t communicated with him my feelings very much because I didn’t want him to carry the burden, and he wasn’t ready to listen. But now, when he talks, I listen, and I share my feelings.

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      • I understand about the sofa. Mine was comfortable and I spent years on it. I could ask what the Hell Blue Eyes was thinking, fooling around with that trash but clearly, he wasn’t thinking. I know addiction can turn people into things we can’t comprehend but that description makes me want to projectile vomit.
        I’m glad your son seems to have the good sense God gave him and is willing to talk to you. Sharing your feelings is difficult and honesty sometimes hurts but in the long run, I believe it is for the best. Secrets and lies fester and become poisonous.
        Keep talking to your son. He will be a great source of comfort and vise versa. Hugs.

        Liked by 1 person

        • I am grateful that both our sons are very open (although it took a while for our younger son to get there) and yeah, no secrets. Their dad is trying to be a better person. They can see that. It was difficult at first. Kids don’t have the life experience to see things much past their own experiences. Thanks so much for your encouraging support. You know how much this blogging world helps. xoxo

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